The Goat breeders diary 2012
December 29, 2012. Heat stress in young kids. The last doe kidded on Christmas eve producing a beautiful single doe kid. A relief that all kidding is finished with a total of over 160 kids from 85 does.
We have had several days of very hot temperatures over the past couple of weeks and I have had two cases of kids under a week old showing symptoms of heat stress. The first case was a two day old kid who had remained in the hay shed while his mother went out grazing for most of the day. I noticed he had not been fed for a while and took him to his dam in the late afternoon. He was panting (but it was so hot so was I, so didn't take much notice) but when I put him down with his dam he kept falling over and staggering and didn't drink. I left him in a cool place and came back in an hour or so when it was cool. He was up and drinking and showed no signs of staggering etc. I am sure it was the effects of heat and I should have picked up the problem and cooled him down with cold compress etc.
The second instance was a doe kid, again about three days old, went with her dam into the paddock and when I found her she was weak and excessively panting. Again I placed her in a cool place and she recovered quickly. Obviously the newer born kids cannot regulate their temperature as well as the older kids who coped with no problems. The moral to the story is to keep an eye on very young kids in very hot conditions as they are prone to heat stress.
Hope you had a great Christmas and the new year is almost upon us. Have fun with your friends and family, and don't forget to have fun with your goats.
We have had several days of very hot temperatures over the past couple of weeks and I have had two cases of kids under a week old showing symptoms of heat stress. The first case was a two day old kid who had remained in the hay shed while his mother went out grazing for most of the day. I noticed he had not been fed for a while and took him to his dam in the late afternoon. He was panting (but it was so hot so was I, so didn't take much notice) but when I put him down with his dam he kept falling over and staggering and didn't drink. I left him in a cool place and came back in an hour or so when it was cool. He was up and drinking and showed no signs of staggering etc. I am sure it was the effects of heat and I should have picked up the problem and cooled him down with cold compress etc.
The second instance was a doe kid, again about three days old, went with her dam into the paddock and when I found her she was weak and excessively panting. Again I placed her in a cool place and she recovered quickly. Obviously the newer born kids cannot regulate their temperature as well as the older kids who coped with no problems. The moral to the story is to keep an eye on very young kids in very hot conditions as they are prone to heat stress.
Hope you had a great Christmas and the new year is almost upon us. Have fun with your friends and family, and don't forget to have fun with your goats.
December 25, 2012. The kidding is all over. The last doe kidded last night. A maiden doe, she had one lovely doe kid. I nearly missed the event, but heard a kid crying down the paddock and went to investigate and found the new born kid with her doting mother. To be finished kidding is a nice Christmas present. I hope all goat breeders have a really happy Christmas and a productive and rewarding New Year. For their goats, I hope they have a warm, companiable, and well feed year.
December 22, 2012. When the doe doesn't want a newborn kid. What to do. Only one doe to kid now but the other two weren't without their issues. The first of these three does kidded at night in the hay shed in the middle of the other does and their kids. When I found her she had two kids, one who she was "doting" on and another one a couple of meters away that she didn't want to know. In fact she was so sure it wasn't her kid she was attacking it when I put it near her. As I don't want to feed another poddy kid at this stage, and certainly not a buck kid, I needed to take action.
She is a quiet doe so I took the kid she liked and she followed me into a nearby pen. I then tied her up to stop her pushing off the unloved kid, and allowed it to drink its fill. The doe still wanted to attack this kid so there was no option but to protect it. What I did was placed a barrier in the corner of her pen and placed both her kids in it. It is necessary to separate both kids, as if I left the first kid with her, she will continue to reinforce the attraction to this kid. Then every few hours under my supervision I allow both kids to drink their fill and then place them back in their corner pen. Some does are more stubborn than others, but most will accept both kids within 24 hours as they seem to forget the liked kid smell. As the kids are lying together in between feedings, perhaps they pass their smell to each other. In this particular case the doe accepted both kids by the second feeding and there has been no problem since.
The second doe, a maiden doe, had the kids easily, was very protective of them to the extent she attacked me when I wanted to assist. She had cleaned them and was very maternal. However she was one of those maidens who move backwards as the kids tried to find the teats. It was getting dark, it was getting cold, the kids were getting frustrated, and I decided to act. Because she would follow the kids with me holding them, I moved them to a pen in the shed so the kids would not wander off looking for a better mother. I warmed a little frozen colostrum and fed it to them, put on a couple of lamb covers and left them to it for the night. This morning all is well. The kids have been fed and mother and kids are doing well.
I have no doubt in paddock conditions with a little natural cover, this doe would have fed the kids given a little time. The problem in this case was that she was kidding in the vicinity of about 20 does and all their kids. Very confusing for a young doe and very easy for the kids to become separated from their dam before they have had a chance to bond. Only one doe to kid....
She is a quiet doe so I took the kid she liked and she followed me into a nearby pen. I then tied her up to stop her pushing off the unloved kid, and allowed it to drink its fill. The doe still wanted to attack this kid so there was no option but to protect it. What I did was placed a barrier in the corner of her pen and placed both her kids in it. It is necessary to separate both kids, as if I left the first kid with her, she will continue to reinforce the attraction to this kid. Then every few hours under my supervision I allow both kids to drink their fill and then place them back in their corner pen. Some does are more stubborn than others, but most will accept both kids within 24 hours as they seem to forget the liked kid smell. As the kids are lying together in between feedings, perhaps they pass their smell to each other. In this particular case the doe accepted both kids by the second feeding and there has been no problem since.
The second doe, a maiden doe, had the kids easily, was very protective of them to the extent she attacked me when I wanted to assist. She had cleaned them and was very maternal. However she was one of those maidens who move backwards as the kids tried to find the teats. It was getting dark, it was getting cold, the kids were getting frustrated, and I decided to act. Because she would follow the kids with me holding them, I moved them to a pen in the shed so the kids would not wander off looking for a better mother. I warmed a little frozen colostrum and fed it to them, put on a couple of lamb covers and left them to it for the night. This morning all is well. The kids have been fed and mother and kids are doing well.
I have no doubt in paddock conditions with a little natural cover, this doe would have fed the kids given a little time. The problem in this case was that she was kidding in the vicinity of about 20 does and all their kids. Very confusing for a young doe and very easy for the kids to become separated from their dam before they have had a chance to bond. Only one doe to kid....
December 17, 2012. When to wean the kids. Still three does to kid. The last of the does are at higher risk of me not noticing there is a problem as there are lots of other things to do. However the weather is warm, they are healthy so I am not expecting there will be any problems.
All the other kids are doing well. The first group of kids born are getting to the stage where the larger buck kids need to be removed. A buck kid can become fertile from about 25 kg. They start chasing the does at this stage, often in "packs" and there is a risk that if they can reach, they will join the does or their doe drop sisters. I generally do not wean the wethers or doe kids from their mothers unless there is a problem or there is a reason to wean. The longer the kids stay with their dam the less chance there is of mastitis as the doe naturally reduces her milk supply over time and gradually drys off. Abruptly weaning kids at a specified time e.g. commonly three months, means the kids are taken off the dam when she is in full milk and mastitis is much more common as her bursting udder is at higher risk of contamination. That's my experience anyway.
Of course if the doe is doing very poorly, or the kids are sold, or need weaning for whatever reason, that is the chance you need to take.
I do not reduce the feed for the does to stop the milk production when I wean the kids, however I also do not put the doe on lush feed after I wean the kids as this may produce a "flush" of milk, and that is looking for trouble when you are trying to dry the doe off.
All the other kids are doing well. The first group of kids born are getting to the stage where the larger buck kids need to be removed. A buck kid can become fertile from about 25 kg. They start chasing the does at this stage, often in "packs" and there is a risk that if they can reach, they will join the does or their doe drop sisters. I generally do not wean the wethers or doe kids from their mothers unless there is a problem or there is a reason to wean. The longer the kids stay with their dam the less chance there is of mastitis as the doe naturally reduces her milk supply over time and gradually drys off. Abruptly weaning kids at a specified time e.g. commonly three months, means the kids are taken off the dam when she is in full milk and mastitis is much more common as her bursting udder is at higher risk of contamination. That's my experience anyway.
Of course if the doe is doing very poorly, or the kids are sold, or need weaning for whatever reason, that is the chance you need to take.
I do not reduce the feed for the does to stop the milk production when I wean the kids, however I also do not put the doe on lush feed after I wean the kids as this may produce a "flush" of milk, and that is looking for trouble when you are trying to dry the doe off.
December 11, 2012. New pictures of the senior sires. Only three does to kid and all the other kids doing well.
Check out the new pictures of the senior sires used this year on the bucks page.
Check out the new pictures of the senior sires used this year on the bucks page.
November 28, 2012. The last group to kid.
It is a while since I commented on the kidding, but have been a bit busy with the last group to kid. This group was about 50 does, with about 15 of them being the later born maidens.
Here is their report. While there are still about 15 does to kid, it is clear they are doing it pretty easy in the warmer weather, and the kids are doing well. It is a funny thing, but I believe that the later in the season I join the does, the fewer triplets I have. That is a good thing for me. In the last 30 does, I have only had two sets of triplets, everyone else has just had two kids, with a few singles.
Only one doe lost her kids at birth. One of the kids obviously got his head stuck as it was swollen and he was dead, and the second of those twins had the membrane still over the head and so had smothered. I missed the whole event as the doe had hidden herself away in a shed and I did not find her until the next morning. Fortunately she had got the kids out and was fine, but she was obviously distressed that the kids would not get up, and she had a massive bag of milk. It was a shame that none of the other does kidded that day so I could not foster a kid on to her. What a waste of a big bag of milk!
The other activity of interest was the milk production of the does. In an earlier note, I mentioned that the milk production of some of the maidens was not as good as I would have liked. In this last group, generally the milk production and mothering ability has been excellent. I wanted to mention that one of the side effects of a doe having limited milk for the kids, is that the kids will often fight each other for the teats, and shove and push while holding on to the teat. In addition to this, for some reason the Boer kids have razor sharp teeth when they are young, and these factors combined, can result in nasty cuts behind the teat where the kids are too aggressive in feeding and pushing. If the doe gets really sore here it is time to intervene, as if nothing is done the doe will either stop feeding the kids as the teats are too sore....or she may continue to let them gnaw at her teats to the extent they will cut through to the milk canal and permanently damage the teat. Some people use ointments and other medications. I have not found these very successful unless it is so distasteful to the kids they stop sucking for a while. I have tried band-aids to try and protect the sore area. Works for about half a day then fall off. What I now use is a patch of strapping tape over the wound to protect the damaged part of the udder. This sticks better than anything else I have found. I have one doe at this moment, who has had her teats so compromised by the rough treatment of her kids, that I have locked the kids in a pen, and feed the doe next to them. I then allow them to suck four or five times a day and immediately after each suckle I return them to their pen. I will do this for a few days to take the pressure off the injury they have caused. I have covered the wound with the strapping tape to protect it as much as I can. When I think the doe is healed enough, I will allow the kids out to run with her again. As the kids get older their teeth lose their razor sharpness, so all should be well. I have no doubt that if I had not managed this does teats, the kids would have damaged the teats so badly she would have never been able to suckle a kid again. As she is a lovely maiden doe, that would have been a shame.
It is a while since I commented on the kidding, but have been a bit busy with the last group to kid. This group was about 50 does, with about 15 of them being the later born maidens.
Here is their report. While there are still about 15 does to kid, it is clear they are doing it pretty easy in the warmer weather, and the kids are doing well. It is a funny thing, but I believe that the later in the season I join the does, the fewer triplets I have. That is a good thing for me. In the last 30 does, I have only had two sets of triplets, everyone else has just had two kids, with a few singles.
Only one doe lost her kids at birth. One of the kids obviously got his head stuck as it was swollen and he was dead, and the second of those twins had the membrane still over the head and so had smothered. I missed the whole event as the doe had hidden herself away in a shed and I did not find her until the next morning. Fortunately she had got the kids out and was fine, but she was obviously distressed that the kids would not get up, and she had a massive bag of milk. It was a shame that none of the other does kidded that day so I could not foster a kid on to her. What a waste of a big bag of milk!
The other activity of interest was the milk production of the does. In an earlier note, I mentioned that the milk production of some of the maidens was not as good as I would have liked. In this last group, generally the milk production and mothering ability has been excellent. I wanted to mention that one of the side effects of a doe having limited milk for the kids, is that the kids will often fight each other for the teats, and shove and push while holding on to the teat. In addition to this, for some reason the Boer kids have razor sharp teeth when they are young, and these factors combined, can result in nasty cuts behind the teat where the kids are too aggressive in feeding and pushing. If the doe gets really sore here it is time to intervene, as if nothing is done the doe will either stop feeding the kids as the teats are too sore....or she may continue to let them gnaw at her teats to the extent they will cut through to the milk canal and permanently damage the teat. Some people use ointments and other medications. I have not found these very successful unless it is so distasteful to the kids they stop sucking for a while. I have tried band-aids to try and protect the sore area. Works for about half a day then fall off. What I now use is a patch of strapping tape over the wound to protect the damaged part of the udder. This sticks better than anything else I have found. I have one doe at this moment, who has had her teats so compromised by the rough treatment of her kids, that I have locked the kids in a pen, and feed the doe next to them. I then allow them to suck four or five times a day and immediately after each suckle I return them to their pen. I will do this for a few days to take the pressure off the injury they have caused. I have covered the wound with the strapping tape to protect it as much as I can. When I think the doe is healed enough, I will allow the kids out to run with her again. As the kids get older their teeth lose their razor sharpness, so all should be well. I have no doubt that if I had not managed this does teats, the kids would have damaged the teats so badly she would have never been able to suckle a kid again. As she is a lovely maiden doe, that would have been a shame.
November 16, 2012 Maremmas in action.
Yesterday, while I was in the paddock with the young kids, one of them touched the electric "hot wire" and got a "shock". It jumped back and let out a "yell". Immediately one of the Maremma dogs named "Guy" raced over to check out what had hurt the kid. He couldn't find anything wrong, so he then chased all the goats away from the fence and then went back to more closely inspect the area where the kid had let out a "yell". He couldn't find anything wrong so everything settled down, he relaxed and everyone went about their business.
Smart dogs these Maremmas. Maremmas are unusual dogs that require appropriate training. It is not appropriate to just put puppies in with the herd. They need clear supervision and the opportunity to bond with their animal type so their natural instincts develop appropriately. I bond puppies with a few bottle fed kids and keep an eye on both to see they are not being bullied. The puppies must not be allowed to rough play with the kids as this may result in an injury. The goats must not be allowed to rough up the puppy or it will not bond appropriately. The puppies will develop their bonding strength over time and will be fully working dogs by about 12 months of time. Do not treat them like pets, but still interact with them each day. You want to be able to manage them but you want them to bond with the goats, not to you. They should be taught to lead and tie up, this will make a big difference to how easily you can manage them later on.
PS. Some people say you should never feed Maremmas fresh meat as they may start killing the goats. I have never found this an issue and they appreciate a feed of fresh meat occasionally. I can assure you a Maremma is highly intelligent and can tell the difference between a piece of meat and a live kid or goat!
My advice: Buy your Maremma from an experienced breeder and you are more likely to have a dog that develops the correct herd instincts. Buy from an opportunistic breeder and you are looking for trouble.
Yesterday, while I was in the paddock with the young kids, one of them touched the electric "hot wire" and got a "shock". It jumped back and let out a "yell". Immediately one of the Maremma dogs named "Guy" raced over to check out what had hurt the kid. He couldn't find anything wrong, so he then chased all the goats away from the fence and then went back to more closely inspect the area where the kid had let out a "yell". He couldn't find anything wrong so everything settled down, he relaxed and everyone went about their business.
Smart dogs these Maremmas. Maremmas are unusual dogs that require appropriate training. It is not appropriate to just put puppies in with the herd. They need clear supervision and the opportunity to bond with their animal type so their natural instincts develop appropriately. I bond puppies with a few bottle fed kids and keep an eye on both to see they are not being bullied. The puppies must not be allowed to rough play with the kids as this may result in an injury. The goats must not be allowed to rough up the puppy or it will not bond appropriately. The puppies will develop their bonding strength over time and will be fully working dogs by about 12 months of time. Do not treat them like pets, but still interact with them each day. You want to be able to manage them but you want them to bond with the goats, not to you. They should be taught to lead and tie up, this will make a big difference to how easily you can manage them later on.
PS. Some people say you should never feed Maremmas fresh meat as they may start killing the goats. I have never found this an issue and they appreciate a feed of fresh meat occasionally. I can assure you a Maremma is highly intelligent and can tell the difference between a piece of meat and a live kid or goat!
My advice: Buy your Maremma from an experienced breeder and you are more likely to have a dog that develops the correct herd instincts. Buy from an opportunistic breeder and you are looking for trouble.
October 30, 2012. Poor little kid with cleft palate.
A very unusual problem arose yesterday with what appeared to be a completely normal new born kid who had trouble drinking. The symptoms were kid sucking on the teat but not successfully drinking, excess milk around the face including milk coming out of the nose and milk on the lungs. Upon investigation it was clear that half the roof of the mouth was missing and therefore the kid could not get the proper suction on the teat to drink. I put the kid down as there was no possibility of a happy outcome with this condition. Very distressing for a goat breeder to put down a tiny helpless kid, but there is no alternative and to try to somehow tube the kid to get it to survive is cruel and much sadder in the longer term. The jury is out on why we sometimes get abnormalities like this. They are very rare but some good sources say it is a genetic factor, while others suggest there may be some toxic agent introduced to the doe during the first trimester. I did have a DPI veterinary investigation of a kid born last year with wry mouth, mouse ear and large cranium. It's doe twin was perfect except for one slightly shorter ear. These were kids from a very old doe. The report came back, probably due to deterioration of eggs due to age of the doe. A bit like humans really, as the risks of deformities in babies increases with the age of the mother. However yesterdays kid was not an aged egg issue as the kid was from a maiden doe. Will keep you informed if I get any further problems like this.
A very unusual problem arose yesterday with what appeared to be a completely normal new born kid who had trouble drinking. The symptoms were kid sucking on the teat but not successfully drinking, excess milk around the face including milk coming out of the nose and milk on the lungs. Upon investigation it was clear that half the roof of the mouth was missing and therefore the kid could not get the proper suction on the teat to drink. I put the kid down as there was no possibility of a happy outcome with this condition. Very distressing for a goat breeder to put down a tiny helpless kid, but there is no alternative and to try to somehow tube the kid to get it to survive is cruel and much sadder in the longer term. The jury is out on why we sometimes get abnormalities like this. They are very rare but some good sources say it is a genetic factor, while others suggest there may be some toxic agent introduced to the doe during the first trimester. I did have a DPI veterinary investigation of a kid born last year with wry mouth, mouse ear and large cranium. It's doe twin was perfect except for one slightly shorter ear. These were kids from a very old doe. The report came back, probably due to deterioration of eggs due to age of the doe. A bit like humans really, as the risks of deformities in babies increases with the age of the mother. However yesterdays kid was not an aged egg issue as the kid was from a maiden doe. Will keep you informed if I get any further problems like this.
October 23,2012. Maiden does milk production.
Just a few more notes on the maiden does with not much milk. It is pretty clear now that the first does to kid, were probably a bit premature and this accounts to some extent why they did not have enough milk to properly feed their twins, triplets, etc. All I did was take off the excess kids to bottle feed, and give the remaining kids some extra milk morning and night until the does came into milk. The only kids getting some extra milk now are the two kids from the quads who remain on their mother, and another set of twins whos dam had very little milk when she kidded. The bottle fed kids are doing well and thriving.
A little suggestion about the limited milk in the does, is that I noticed signs of a mild iodine deficiency in a couple of the doe kids. This showed up as slight swelling of the little glands just either side of the throat (not to be confused with enlarged salivery glands that are specially common in fat kids). This may well have been the reason for the slight premature delivery of the kids. I have provided iodine to the does and the next group of does seem to be doing much better in the milk department. While it has not been an issue here in the past, this has been such a good season and the feed is growing so fast, perhaps there is less iodine per kilo of feed available to the does. I did put some Lugols in water freely available to the does and kids and the little quad kids drank quite a bit...... Exposed to the sunlight, iodine quickly loses is viability so keep in shaded areas and only offer iodine in water when the does are nearby and only at a low dose. The dose for treating individual does with iodine, is one mil of Lugols per doe diluted in about 10 mls of water. Lugols iodine is probably the easiest to get from your vet. Don't just treat unless you know you have a deficiency as overtreatment with iodine is just as bad as a deficiency.
Just a few more notes on the maiden does with not much milk. It is pretty clear now that the first does to kid, were probably a bit premature and this accounts to some extent why they did not have enough milk to properly feed their twins, triplets, etc. All I did was take off the excess kids to bottle feed, and give the remaining kids some extra milk morning and night until the does came into milk. The only kids getting some extra milk now are the two kids from the quads who remain on their mother, and another set of twins whos dam had very little milk when she kidded. The bottle fed kids are doing well and thriving.
A little suggestion about the limited milk in the does, is that I noticed signs of a mild iodine deficiency in a couple of the doe kids. This showed up as slight swelling of the little glands just either side of the throat (not to be confused with enlarged salivery glands that are specially common in fat kids). This may well have been the reason for the slight premature delivery of the kids. I have provided iodine to the does and the next group of does seem to be doing much better in the milk department. While it has not been an issue here in the past, this has been such a good season and the feed is growing so fast, perhaps there is less iodine per kilo of feed available to the does. I did put some Lugols in water freely available to the does and kids and the little quad kids drank quite a bit...... Exposed to the sunlight, iodine quickly loses is viability so keep in shaded areas and only offer iodine in water when the does are nearby and only at a low dose. The dose for treating individual does with iodine, is one mil of Lugols per doe diluted in about 10 mls of water. Lugols iodine is probably the easiest to get from your vet. Don't just treat unless you know you have a deficiency as overtreatment with iodine is just as bad as a deficiency.
October 16, 2012. More maiden does kidding.
The next group of maiden does has started kidding, and they are not as easy as the earlier two groups. Just to start things off, the first doe had quads. Nice size kids and they were all up and drinking but really two is quite enough. The second doe had triplets, again nice size kids and all healthy. The third doe had triplets, but one smothered with the membrane over its nose because I was not at the birth to remove it. I have now removed the excess kids to bottle feed them, leaving only two kids per doe. I don't know what was in the water to get so many multiples, but in the past I have found most of the triplets and quads come first, so I suspect they are a little premature.
The previous groups of maiden does had more milk than this group, so I need to think about why this is so. Perhaps I have not fed them as well, or perhaps they carry a higher worm burden. Whatever it is, the does themselves are in excellent condition (over score three) but not as much milk as I would like.
The next group of maiden does has started kidding, and they are not as easy as the earlier two groups. Just to start things off, the first doe had quads. Nice size kids and they were all up and drinking but really two is quite enough. The second doe had triplets, again nice size kids and all healthy. The third doe had triplets, but one smothered with the membrane over its nose because I was not at the birth to remove it. I have now removed the excess kids to bottle feed them, leaving only two kids per doe. I don't know what was in the water to get so many multiples, but in the past I have found most of the triplets and quads come first, so I suspect they are a little premature.
The previous groups of maiden does had more milk than this group, so I need to think about why this is so. Perhaps I have not fed them as well, or perhaps they carry a higher worm burden. Whatever it is, the does themselves are in excellent condition (over score three) but not as much milk as I would like.
October 8, 2012 Kids with trouble sucking
At present I am bottle raising seven little doe kids. I have raised hundreds over the years, but it is often a tricky business. Because of the cost, we cannot raise them on goats milk. Whatever anyone else says, substitute products are not as good or as "safe" as their mothers milk. Currently I use full cream powdered milk. In addition to the risks of stomach upsets, one little surprise is that sometimes after a kid is several weeks old, it has trouble actually getting the sucking reflex going. The kid tries really hard but can only seem to mouth the teat and not actually suck. Most frustrating for the kid and a worry for me. Eventually at each session it seems to get the suck going, but this problem is not normal for a kid and a solution needs to be found. My best guess is that it has to do with the level of minerals available in the substitute powdered cows milk that I provide for them. I think it is the first signs of a Selenium deficiency where the muscles of the tongue are being affected. I give the kid some vitamin E or Selenium and they come good within a few days... I don't get this problem with the substitute powders sold specifically for animal raising, but I have found other problems with these powders that I will discuss another day.
October 3, 2012. Snakes alive!
It's that time of year again when the warm weather is bringing out the sleepy crawlies.
Today for the first time this season, I saw a red bellied black snake about three meters from me. Quite a fat snake but only about a meter long. He/she sat quietly watching me while I climbed over the gate. Then it very slowly slipped into the undergrowth, very casually indeed. Is it a danger to the goats? While I hear goat keepers blame snakes for the sudden death of a goat in their herd, that is not my experience. When I ask the breeder how they know it was a snake they usually reply, oh it was such a sudden death. I can assure you a sudden death should not necessarily be blamed on a snake. Sudden deaths in goats are really more common than lingering deaths, ask an experienced goat breeder if this is the truth. While I have had my suspicions of a snake bite in goats in about three cases in the last 30 years I have never seen the puncture marks or real evidence that such was the case. I am sure there are properties with much more aggressive snakes than here, but it is worth checking out sudden deaths rather than blaming them on the snakes.
It's that time of year again when the warm weather is bringing out the sleepy crawlies.
Today for the first time this season, I saw a red bellied black snake about three meters from me. Quite a fat snake but only about a meter long. He/she sat quietly watching me while I climbed over the gate. Then it very slowly slipped into the undergrowth, very casually indeed. Is it a danger to the goats? While I hear goat keepers blame snakes for the sudden death of a goat in their herd, that is not my experience. When I ask the breeder how they know it was a snake they usually reply, oh it was such a sudden death. I can assure you a sudden death should not necessarily be blamed on a snake. Sudden deaths in goats are really more common than lingering deaths, ask an experienced goat breeder if this is the truth. While I have had my suspicions of a snake bite in goats in about three cases in the last 30 years I have never seen the puncture marks or real evidence that such was the case. I am sure there are properties with much more aggressive snakes than here, but it is worth checking out sudden deaths rather than blaming them on the snakes.
September 27, 2012. Statistics on the kidding does so far.
Just out of interest, I looked at how the does were kidding and the ratio of live kids to deaths.
So far (with lots more to go) there are 42 kids on the ground out of 14 mature age does and 7 maiden does. The 14 mature age does kidded well with 27 live kids, but lost 5 kids of which 3 were triplets, one "whopper" that got stuck for a while, and one death due to membrane covering the nose.
The 7 maiden does in this group, were more impressive with no deaths and 15 live kids including three sets of triplets, two sets of twins and two singles. All born with no real assistance.
Overall no weak or sickly kids and all "up and at em" as soon as they hit the ground. All were of a really good even size. The question is, were they so strong because they were fed better than other years, are the cubes I am using higher in the essential elements of selenium, copper etc., or is it a genetic influence from the buck Cadenza Bart? Is he responsible for the strength of the kids?
We may know soon, as the next group of maiden does is due in a week or so and they are sired by a different buck.
Just out of interest, I looked at how the does were kidding and the ratio of live kids to deaths.
So far (with lots more to go) there are 42 kids on the ground out of 14 mature age does and 7 maiden does. The 14 mature age does kidded well with 27 live kids, but lost 5 kids of which 3 were triplets, one "whopper" that got stuck for a while, and one death due to membrane covering the nose.
The 7 maiden does in this group, were more impressive with no deaths and 15 live kids including three sets of triplets, two sets of twins and two singles. All born with no real assistance.
Overall no weak or sickly kids and all "up and at em" as soon as they hit the ground. All were of a really good even size. The question is, were they so strong because they were fed better than other years, are the cubes I am using higher in the essential elements of selenium, copper etc., or is it a genetic influence from the buck Cadenza Bart? Is he responsible for the strength of the kids?
We may know soon, as the next group of maiden does is due in a week or so and they are sired by a different buck.
CA1FF0071's newborn doe kids need a warm up after a cold, cold night without feeding. The rule is warm up first, then feed the kids.
September 24, 2012. Are they on South African time! While the mature age does mostly kidded during daylight hours, the maidens are kidding late afternoon or night-time. Much higher risk time for them and the kids.
One of the nicest yearling does kidded last night (CA1FF0071). You can see a picture of her on the "Bucks page", as she is an example of the progeny of "Rocky". While I knew she was close, I didn't think she would kid last night so took no extra precautions. It was a cold and windy night, fortunately she kidded in the front of the shed where it is reasonably sheltered. She had triplets, two does and a buck. She was able to have three nice size kids, expel the afterbirth, and feed the buck kid, but the two doe kids had quite a lot of soiled material on them from other does and as she did not identify them as her kids would not feed them............................
One of the nicest yearling does kidded last night (CA1FF0071). You can see a picture of her on the "Bucks page", as she is an example of the progeny of "Rocky". While I knew she was close, I didn't think she would kid last night so took no extra precautions. It was a cold and windy night, fortunately she kidded in the front of the shed where it is reasonably sheltered. She had triplets, two does and a buck. She was able to have three nice size kids, expel the afterbirth, and feed the buck kid, but the two doe kids had quite a lot of soiled material on them from other does and as she did not identify them as her kids would not feed them............................
September 20, 2012. Kidding adventures, maiden style.
Last night, when the heavily pregnant maidens came home, one of the does was obviously due to kid with strings of mucus coming from her vagina. About a week ago this doe had a nasty case of scours with some bloody mucus in her droppings. Possible beginnings of pulpy kidney or a bacterial infection etc....................
Last night, when the heavily pregnant maidens came home, one of the does was obviously due to kid with strings of mucus coming from her vagina. About a week ago this doe had a nasty case of scours with some bloody mucus in her droppings. Possible beginnings of pulpy kidney or a bacterial infection etc....................
September 17, 2012. Maiden achievements.
Yesterday, one of the maiden does kidded, (aged about 22 months). She had been pretty heavy with kids, so I was not surprised that she had triplets. What was so pleasing is that she had them on her own in the paddock, and by the time I found her, they were all up and feeding with no problems. All I did was put a little lamb cover on each as the wind chill factor was quite high, and I also dipped their umbilical cords in a Lugol's solution to be sure they did not get "joint ill". Later on I took them to the shed so overnight they were safe from foxes. This morning I weighed the kids. Two were 3.5 kgs and one was 3.0 kgs. This is the same as three normal size human babies in a doe that weighs about the same as a normal human mother. What an effort! This is why I do not join does until they are about 18mths and over about 45kgs. Both mothers and babies have the best chance of a safe delivery and survival.
Yesterday, one of the maiden does kidded, (aged about 22 months). She had been pretty heavy with kids, so I was not surprised that she had triplets. What was so pleasing is that she had them on her own in the paddock, and by the time I found her, they were all up and feeding with no problems. All I did was put a little lamb cover on each as the wind chill factor was quite high, and I also dipped their umbilical cords in a Lugol's solution to be sure they did not get "joint ill". Later on I took them to the shed so overnight they were safe from foxes. This morning I weighed the kids. Two were 3.5 kgs and one was 3.0 kgs. This is the same as three normal size human babies in a doe that weighs about the same as a normal human mother. What an effort! This is why I do not join does until they are about 18mths and over about 45kgs. Both mothers and babies have the best chance of a safe delivery and survival.
August 29. The poddy kids from triplets, warm and dry
August 27, 2012. Go to the "Recent Stud activities" page /recent-stud-activities.html for more information on the kidding so far, and pictures of the does with kids at foot. Also while there check out an example of good udder structure and mothering behaviour.
August 23, 2012. Check out additional information sources in section"other sources of information"
/other-sources-of-information.html
August 22, 2012. Kidding events...Triplets. So far this year 12 mature age does have kidded in this first group. Only one more doe of this group to go. As a point of interest here is the breakdown of kids born so far. Six sets of triplets, one single, five twins. Of these, the kids at most risk were the triplets, being smaller, and if born at night very difficult for the doe to clean them up quickly and get them feed before they chill down. For me triplets are not desirable as they are a higher risk for death at birth, an enormous drain on the doe, and later feeding issues. As noted elsewhere, I take one of the doe kids off the doe for hand feeding. But here is a note. This action needs to be taken within 24-48 hours after the birth of the kids as some of the kids will not take to the bottle if they have habituated to their mother's milk and teats over a longer period.
I was late removing one of the kids from a set of triplets and no way would this kid take"the replacement milk" and eventually I had to return her to her dam as I feared she would starve to death. This set of triplets will have to take their chances. Fortunately the doe is an exceptionally good dam with a lot of milk and an extra teat that the kids seem to be able to sort out. Fingers crossed that dam and kids survive.
August 17,2012. Kidding adventures. The good and the bad. Today on the farm there was a little surprise. I was working "up the paddock" and noticed in another paddock near the house, a doe on her own with what looked like a new born kid. While the does in this paddock are pregnant, none are due to kid for another four weeks. When I investigated there was a very old doe MGFX0044 with a very new well fed lively kid. While I knew she had run with the buck with other does, I did not think she had conceived as she is very old, was not bagging up, and had been struggling to keep her weight on. In reality she was just in this paddock as it has excellent feed and I haven't had the heart to send her to goat heaven. So I guess her life is extended with the responsibilities of motherhood. She will need careful nutrition to be sure she can keep her own condition and to produce sufficient milk for her little doe daughter.
August 23, 2012. Check out additional information sources in section"other sources of information"
/other-sources-of-information.html
August 22, 2012. Kidding events...Triplets. So far this year 12 mature age does have kidded in this first group. Only one more doe of this group to go. As a point of interest here is the breakdown of kids born so far. Six sets of triplets, one single, five twins. Of these, the kids at most risk were the triplets, being smaller, and if born at night very difficult for the doe to clean them up quickly and get them feed before they chill down. For me triplets are not desirable as they are a higher risk for death at birth, an enormous drain on the doe, and later feeding issues. As noted elsewhere, I take one of the doe kids off the doe for hand feeding. But here is a note. This action needs to be taken within 24-48 hours after the birth of the kids as some of the kids will not take to the bottle if they have habituated to their mother's milk and teats over a longer period.
I was late removing one of the kids from a set of triplets and no way would this kid take"the replacement milk" and eventually I had to return her to her dam as I feared she would starve to death. This set of triplets will have to take their chances. Fortunately the doe is an exceptionally good dam with a lot of milk and an extra teat that the kids seem to be able to sort out. Fingers crossed that dam and kids survive.
August 17,2012. Kidding adventures. The good and the bad. Today on the farm there was a little surprise. I was working "up the paddock" and noticed in another paddock near the house, a doe on her own with what looked like a new born kid. While the does in this paddock are pregnant, none are due to kid for another four weeks. When I investigated there was a very old doe MGFX0044 with a very new well fed lively kid. While I knew she had run with the buck with other does, I did not think she had conceived as she is very old, was not bagging up, and had been struggling to keep her weight on. In reality she was just in this paddock as it has excellent feed and I haven't had the heart to send her to goat heaven. So I guess her life is extended with the responsibilities of motherhood. She will need careful nutrition to be sure she can keep her own condition and to produce sufficient milk for her little doe daughter.
September 16, 2012. For very intelligent animals, sometimes goats can be, or at least appear to be, really stupid.
Early this morning (5am) I heard a goat "crying" down at the yards where the goats come home each night. When I investigated, I found a young doe with her head stuck through the gate mesh. She couldn't extract her head because her horns caught in the mesh as she tried to withdraw her head. She had obviously been there all night, and was cold, lonely, and miserable. I manipulated her head so the horns fitted back through the mesh and off she went....without a thank you or any acknowledgement that I had probably saved her life. If she had not been extracted from the mesh she may have starved to death, or died of exposure....not a nice end and a good reason to check all the goats at least once per day. While I don't understand why they do this, goats have a tendency to stick their head through mesh or gaps. The lesson is that if you are setting up your farm, do not think that smaller mesh is necessarily better than bigger mesh. Pig mesh and the mesh they use for emus etc is too small and traps the goats horns when they try to withdraw their heads. Ordinary sheep ringlock type sheep fencing (with a standoff hot wire) is best as the goats do not get stuck as with the smaller size mesh. See the FAQ publication download on this page for more information about fencing for goats.
September 13, 2012. The maiden does are kidding. The first of the maiden group of does has now kidded. The first doe had a large kid of over 5kg, and because she was a relatively quiet doe I did help with a little pull on the legs just to help get the head through and therefore get the kid out a little faster. Sometimes if a kid takes a long time to be born, the continual contractions cause swelling and trauma, especially to the head and brain. So if it is convenient, and the doe is not likely to be disturbed, a little help with a big kid is good for the kid and kind to the doe. Pull downwards towards the hocks, not straight out, and time your pulls with the doe pushing. If the doe is "a nutter" and likely to take off up the paddock, then leave well enough alone unless she is obviously in trouble.
The second maiden doe had two lovely good size kids without assistance. Both does are fantastic mothers, immediately bonding with the kids, cleaning them up, and standing quietly while they find the teat and drink.
I find that some maidens, especially if they are bred too young, are more likely to think that whatever this thing is that came out of them, must be from "outer space" and therefore you must be very cautious about touching it or licking it. Eventually they usually get to clean it up, if the kid hasn't chilled down in the meantime or wandered off looking for a better mother! The other issue with maidens is that some of them are ticklish around the udder and teats and just keep moving around the kid instead of standing for it to drink. Once the kid can latch on to the teat, the does enjoy the suckling process and all is well both for that kidding and for all future kiddings.
September 9th 2012. Check out discussion on nutrition v genetics on the new "more stud information" page here is the link /more-stud-information.html
September 8th 2012. The kids are doing well.
The kids are now strong, getting into mischief, and becoming more independent. See above for a pictures of the does and their kids coming home for the night.
September 4th, 2012. Bad day on the farm. Kidding doesn't always go well.
Late afternoon, I noticed one of the older does was preparing to kid with some light mucus coming from vagina and a little talking. I checked on her later in the evening, no kid, but more mucus, but no pushing or discomfort. Early next morning checked her again. No kid, no real pushing, no real discomfort, just mucus that was not really clear. I have seen these symptoms before and it usually means the kid is either dead or is not in a position that pushes on the cervix to stimulate the doe to push hard. So the next step is to investigate what is going on. If you are squeamish stop reading now..........
Bad day - kidding continued....
By inserting my hand, I could feel a foot of a kid but no sign of life. I pulled the leg, and could find another leg and carefully pulled the two together. Even with my hand fully inserted in the doe, the head was not positioned correctly and was turned back a long, long way. The kid was obviously very dead as the whole shell of the hoof came away with handling. This was a life and death issue for the doe. The kid was quite dry, the head was not able to be found, and there was no way the doe could push the kid out with the head back like this. The options were to continue traumatising the doe to try to get hold of the kids head and pull it forward trying to position the kid correctly, ring the vet to perform a caesarian, or to call it quits and put the doe out of her misery.
There is a point where just continuing to search for the head of the kid is a dead-end and is just too painful for the doe. I had reached this point. I needed to consider the best option for the doe. The doe was eight years old, the kid/s were dead. What was the right thing to do. I decided to put the doe down. At her age a caesarian is a major operation and comes with significant risks, especially as there was a dead, really dead, kid inside. At her age it was questionable whether she would kid again even if she survived the caesarian. This doe did not kid last year, and she had a dead kid this year, it suggests something is wrong inside and it is not in the interests of the doe to cause her considerable pain and trauma when there is no positive outcome.
I put the doe down. (Note, you must know how to do this properly, do not just guess). I then checked the kid/s inside her and found a small, single kid, bloated and with head a long way back. I had hoped for a little miracle and hoped to find a second live kid. But that was not the case. Of course if you are going to open up a doe after you have put her down to check for a live kid, you only have a couple of minutes to do this. After the doe stops breathing and blood stops pulsing, the kid will not get oxygen and will quickly die. If you are not experienced do not even consider this option. Call your vet who will do all this for you. It is not sensible or ethical for the inexperienced to attempt to manage very difficult births. Watch what the vet does and you will gain experience and confidence over a number of years.
On a positive note, all the other does are doing well, along with their 25 kids.
Only about another 80 does to go.... for all goat breeders out there, I hope your kidding goes well.
August 29. The poddy kids from triplets, warm and dry
Kids love to play on things.
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Girls in waiting
Not long to go!
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August 9, 2012. Hot spot....or should I say cold spot.
Warning for today 9th Aug 2012. If you are kidding today, unless you have provided excellent shelter for your goats the kids will be lucky to survive. It is very cold in Southern Victoria today. For example at this moment it is 6 degrees Celcius and wind of 45 kph. The wind chill factor, without taking into account rain or wet new born kids is the equivalent of -1 degrees. They don't last long at that temperature! Good vibes to those breeders who look after their goats.
Warning for today 9th Aug 2012. If you are kidding today, unless you have provided excellent shelter for your goats the kids will be lucky to survive. It is very cold in Southern Victoria today. For example at this moment it is 6 degrees Celcius and wind of 45 kph. The wind chill factor, without taking into account rain or wet new born kids is the equivalent of -1 degrees. They don't last long at that temperature! Good vibes to those breeders who look after their goats.
The first kids for the year have arrived!
This is the grand old lady Cadenza CA1FY0116 with her new triplets. Note the kids are wearing modified lamb covers as it is very cold here at the moment. The covers give the kids the best chance of survival when they are first born. If it is really cold, I fit them soon after birth and leave them on until the weather improves. Makes a big difference to their survival rates.
This is the grand old lady Cadenza CA1FY0116 with her new triplets. Note the kids are wearing modified lamb covers as it is very cold here at the moment. The covers give the kids the best chance of survival when they are first born. If it is really cold, I fit them soon after birth and leave them on until the weather improves. Makes a big difference to their survival rates.
CA1FY0116 has been a Grand Champion doe in her showing career. At nine years of age she is still absolutely correct in all aspects of her conformation, and is a wonderful mother. She has always been paddock run and was prepared for this kidding on good paddock feed and about 300 grams of grain cubes per day for the last few weeks of her pregnancy. It was clear she was going to have more than two kids so careful observation was taken to ensure she was not lethargic, was eating well, and was in condition score three for kidding. Pregnancy toxemia is a big risk for older does if they have difficulty holding their condition, and specially if they are carrying triplets.
There is some information on kidding in the information and husbandry section and check out information at the Victorian newsletter site.
Training day.
Cadenza CA1FY0116 with her triplets 2012